#3 – Show Transcripts – Lane Kawaoka

Rick Mazur: So, for today’s interview, I had the opportunity to sit down with Lane Kowaoka. Lane’s been investing for over a decade and now and controls four or five thousand units. As the owner of crowdfundaloha.com, Simplepassivecashflow.com, and REIaloha.com, Lane’s responsible for finding investment opportunities, analysis, and marketing. Mr. Kawaoka, as he’s going to explain to you in the interview, got his engineering degree. He also earned a Ms in civil engineering and construction management from the University of Washington.

In addition to an analytical engineering background, Lane has real-world experience working as a project manager for over $250 million of capital construction projects in both the public and private sectors. Working as a high-paid professional in corporate America but frustrated by the traditional wealth-building, dogma lane was compelled to inspire and mentor other working professionals via his top 50 investing podcast.

I hope you enjoy the interview. Stick around after the interview, where I will give you my breakdown, some of the things we discussed, and just my general thoughts and the different topics and things like that. I think it should be fun. Here’s Lane, everybody. Hey lane, welcome to the show.

Lane Kawaoka: Hey, thanks for having me, Rick.

Aloha, everybody

Rick Mazur: from Hawaii Honolulu, right?

Lane Kawaoka: That’s correct.

Rick Mazur: Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Yes. I wanted to have you on the show. I think you have some interesting perspectives on investing in real estate, and I think the audience might enjoy it. So why don’t you just start and kind of give us a little background of your story and how you started and everything like that, and we can go from there?

Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. So currently, I own 4,500 rental units. We’ll see apartments in the workforce housing sector. Didn’t always start off like that. I, you know, grew up, you know, as a, they taught me to be fruitful, go to school, study hard. For some reason, I became an engineer and started working for the man.

And I saved my money up to buy a house to live in. That’s what everybody says you’re supposed to do. And because I was working on the road a lot for work as most young professionals are. I just decided to rent it out. Cause it kind of seemed like a waste of money at the time. That was where I realized this thing called passive cash flow, where my rents exceeded all my expenses and mortgage for that rental property.

And that was back in 2009. That was kind of the start, this, this mad craze to get by more and more rentals. And finally, quit the day job as an engineer.

Rick Mazur: So you used your knowledge to reverse engineer the typical wealth-building strategies that the more affluent people and the super-rich have traditionally followed to allow the typical passive investor to benefit and participate.

Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, obviously, like property gets your net worth up there. But then I, later on, realized the secrets of the wealthy, which we can talk about later. But you know, on that first rental, I was making, you know, several hundred dollars every month, the cash flow, and I was like, shoot, if I just did this a few more times, I’ll be able to escape the rat race and, you know, leave my day job.

So that was what I did from 2009 to 2015 as I acquired, you know, one rental buy one rental, eventually having 11 single-family homes by 2015.

Rick Mazur: And when did you decide that? Did you decide at some point that 11 was too much and you wanted to switch to something else? I mean, why not go to 20 or 25?

Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. So I guess like 10, 11 is a good sample size, right?

So I get to test. But with those, each rental property brought in a few hundred bucks of cash flow. So times 10, that was like, you know, a few thousand dollars of passive cash flow a month, which is incredible. Right. I mean, who wouldn’t want that? But. I think that was at that point was when I started to join higher level mastermind is getting around other accredited doctors, lawyers, engineers that were older than myself at the time.

And I started to realize or began to learn from them. That rental property is a great way to get started but very different than what higher net worth accredited investors do after a certain point; they go into these private placements and syndications or country club deals. Where they’re passive LP partners, limited partners.

So they have little to no liability and don’t get any of the debt in their name. And the most significant thing is that they don’t do anything, right. They just invest their money in their passive LP partners. The problem with this is finding the right people to work with – and this is why they’re called country club deals, right?

So I started to transition my portfolio from these rental properties, which. Became a sort of pain. I mean, with 10, 11 rentals, I had an eviction, every other, or one or two a year, I had some kind of big issue happen. Like, a tree fell on the house, some sort of big wash out or rainstorm happening, or plumbing repair that happened every maybe quarter. This was no problem because I had professional property management, and every single one of these properties met the 1% rent-to-value ratio and the cash flow.

But my role was the asset manager. I had to manage the manager, right. Ensure that all these repairs get done correctly and quickly so I can get my money. Right. But you know, with, for $3,000 a month, you know, you’re going to need, I don’t understand what American family can survive off $2,000 a month.

They’re going to need like 10 grand, or so you’re gonna need to multiply that. So 30 houses and multiply that exception rate. And you can quickly see how this becomes unscalable. Now you’re talking about an eviction every other month, some kind of big issue that happens every couple of weeks for good reasons.

It’s just not what I network people do. Right.

Rick Mazur: So do you recommend that people start there anyway? Yeah, it would be kind of hard to jump higher than that at a higher level. Right?

Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. So like, you know, like my website kind of caters towards working professionals, people with some money, right. Like if you’re broke and you don’t have a good-paying job, probably don’t come to simple passive cash comp, right?

Like it’s for people who are pretty good with their money. Right. Like, as I was, I mean, I didn’t start off with much. Luckily, I didn’t have too many student loans graduating college, but I was excellent and frugal with my money. I was able to save 50 grand a year. They put two investments, and it just took a lot of time from 2009 when I bought my first property and then took me all the way it’s six, seven years to get up to double figures.

What I would, what my general recommendation for people. The prescription is if your net worth is under a quarter million, half a million dollars. You need to get some rental properties; you need to get your net worth up. But once you go above that threshold, certainly to accredited investor status. So you’ve got a million-dollar net worth or above or making over $250,000 a year.

I would say rental properties just aren’t scalable for you. And it’s kind of a waste of time. And that’s where these private placements and certifications come into play.

Rick Mazur:  So let’s say somebody had a rental property or two, but they fit those criteria. Then, that’s where a site like your Simple Passive Cashflow could help them?

Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like to kind of help out everybody, right? As long as they make a professional salary, right? So for the guys under a quarter-million dollars, we have a lot of free content for them on how to buy their first remote rental property. Because for many guys that at least, you know, we have many folks on the East Coast and the West coast make good salaries, but they’re horrible places to invest, right?

Like I would never invest in the Los Angeles, Miami, San Francisco, Seattle. New York, Boston markets, primary markets. Right. We invest in secondary markets, such as Birmingham, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Jacksonville. Right. These are four places where the key is you can buy good houses that meet the 1% rent evaluation.

Okay. Yeah, because you can, like you said, the primary markets are pretty much too, too pricey out there and. Yeah,

I mean, they’re expensive, but I think the big thing is like the rent that you get for a dollar spent, it doesn’t really make sense, right? We’re buying properties where if we’re buying a hundred thousand dollar house or renting for a thousand bucks a month, whereas, in California, you’d be lucky to find a place in the ghetto for 400 grand that rents for $2,000 a month.

That’s half a percent rent-to-value ratio. That’s the wetland and going to work.

Rick Mazur: Correct. Exactly. So if somebody is a busy professional or a business owner or maybe they’re already investing in small rentals but just want to get out of dealing with all the day-to-day stuff and want to learn more about syndication, which, as we discussed, is a pooling of capital to invest in an opportunity,

What should they do?

Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, I’ve been saying, I would say at that point, go and check out simple, passive cashflow.com/syndication. Read that kind of intro guide there. I think what’s hard about syndications for passive investors is any yo-yo can do syndication these days, right? Anybody can make a podcast and create some social proof for sod.

Who do you know who to trust? Right. I mean, I lost 50 grand on my first deal investing with the wrong person because I didn’t have a network. To be able to vet out the sponsor and the operator. So it’s, you know, you need a network of pure passive people around you, and that’s something that not a lot of people can do, right.

They can’t build relationships there. You know, we’re all like, we’re all kind of out of touch this last year of social activities. And you know, it’s just, we’re all separated in this world. And most likely, I mean, I never had it, but. People in my network five, 10 years ago, they’re all just W2.

People are just brainwashed by all the 401k, buy a house to live in. And that type of stuff. They’re not in investing and thinking this way of investing off of wall street.

Rick Mazur: I think just with investing in general, especially in certain areas, investors can get a little gun shy because they don’t know where to go. I think if you asked most people, they would say, sure, I’m making X amount over here and dealing with a bunch of headaches and everything like that. And if I have an opportunity to make even more. With less time. It all sounds great. As you said before, they have to find the right network and have that trust and everything.

Lane Kawaoka: Right? Exactly. Exactly. But I mean, if somebody’s never owned rental real estate before, it makes it really tough to evaluate a deal from a pitch deck perspective. Right. So that’s why we try and educate people from the start. Like they’re picking up their first rental property because the fundamentals carry on all the way through whether you’re passing.

You’re buying your old rental property in Birmingham, or you’re investing as a passive investor in a more significant deal.

Rick Mazur: And when you say syndications, for people who don’t understand what that means, what do you mean by syndications?

Lane Kawaoka: Yeah. So syndication is kind of like a, I think it’s like a verb. It’s like a, it’s a way of putting together investors capital, sort of like a mini co-op or mini crowdfunding.

A bunch of investors can now team up as passive investors and go after a more significant asset. And there’s a general partner that operates set investment on behalf of the passive investors. So I think, I think we, when we try and do is we try and go after deals that are in the hundred to 300 unit spectrum where we stay below the institutional players, institutional players are just trying to make a very low.

Like lame yield for these, their retirement funds, and pensions, they’re kind of lazy money. And they’re typically playing in the 30 to $50 million range and above where your mom and pop are invested. You’re on sophisticated landlords. There’s a lot about there. They kind of stay below the one to $2 million range.

So we stay around the two to $30 million range where there’s low competition, and there are good deals that we can have that not many people can compete with us.

Rick Mazur:  How, how many people are typically in those deals

Lane Kawaoka: Typically, you know, on a smaller deal, like a five to $10 million deal, maybe about 20 to 30, but we’ve had upwards of 120, 150 investors on, on some of the larger projects.

And this is like the idea, right? With passive investors, you do give up control. Most of our investors are self-aware enough to know that they have their full-time day jobs, that they might be a doctor and cannot concentrate and run the deal, and they don’t have the contacts and the deal flow.

This is why they think that they’re better off within the bigger units.

Rick Mazur: And are they locked into these deals? I mean, what, is there a timeframe that typically, you’re locked in for?

Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, they’re, they’re locked in, but the idea is like they’re diversified over dozens and dozens of deals.

Right. So the investors frankly don’t really care, and I don’t know where else they can make a higher return. So why would they not want to be locked in?

Rick Mazur:  Right, exactly. No, that makes sense. You mentioned on your website about house hacking? What is house hacking?

Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, so house hacking is one of these things that the kids are doing, where they buy like a duplex triplex or quads live on one side. I mean, it’s cool. It works right. But you know, not for accredited investors or higher net worth people or people. Over the age of 30, in my opinion. Right? You don’t want to be living next to your landlord. You know, like I sure as heck don’t want to do it. You know,  

Rick Mazur: Renting out to a lot of college students is popular here. They get a house, and they rent the rooms out as individual leases, and it’s like a shared, shared family room and all that. And I can just imagine that’s a mess waiting to happen.

Lane Kawaoka:  I mean, it’s cool. If you have to, if your net worth is under a quarter million, And like you make under 80 grand a year, then do stuff like that.

I did a lot of crazy stuff when I was younger, in my twenties, and even in my early thirties. Right. I mean, if people want to go look at all, like the crazy stuff I did that saved money, go to my website, simplepassivecashflow.com/cheapo, and all the shameless things I would do to save money. Right. But what I do is use that money to do is go buy, buy and hold Reynolds.

Right? And after, well, it steamrolls, and you get to a point where you start to realize everybody’s trading time for money, right? At their day jobs. Or even with this like cheapo stuff, right. After a certain inflection point, you start to get up your head above water. You begin to realize time is more valuable than money.

And that’s where the syndications come into play because it’s sort of infinitely scalable.

Rick Mazur: And when you’re talking about having the money locked up, I mean, what kind of timeframe are we talking about, a year? Like five years, 10 years, 20 years, or?

Lane Kawaoka: I mean, you can syndicate anything, right? So there’s a whole world of things you can possibly invest in.

Right? So from. I’ll buy it. 

You can syndicate a rental property. You can syndicate 10 to 200, 300 units, right? The different business buys. You can syndicate a brewery and syndicate as a tech startup. Right. But in the world of real estate, right? Like typically, what we do is we liked to build on the business plan. We’d like to buy a stabilized asset, 90% occupied or more, that’s cash flowing on day one… And with the rents being a little bit undervalued. So we would like to rehab the units. So very, very much like putting lipstick on a pig. So maybe four to $6,000 of rehab, new flooring, new appliances, new paint job, perhaps some playground equipment on the outside. New clubhouse. But we want to bump the rents up a hundred, 200 bucks a month on every unit.

And just as the units come up for natural turnover, we don’t want to kick out tenants cause they don’t cash flow, which suffers. So in this fashion, I mean typically tenants that live in apartments, there was some turnover rate, right? So when the first couple of years, your goal through most of the units to rehab, so Bobby could take would be two to three years.

And we also liked the tack on a couple of years on there just to be safe. So anywhere from three to seven years.

Rick Mazur: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s a deal-by-deal type of basis, and then they can get involved if they want to, or they don’t really have any control over that.

Lane Kawaoka: They don’t, they don’t have control as the passive investors in on the boat, but they have a tiny part of their net worth.

Rick Mazur: Yeah. It’s all fine — exactly. So I was also looking; I noticed you have this QRP book and, and there’s a lot of people I know. I want to shift gears a little bit more to the, you know, 401k because I know you talk a lot about 401ks, and the money should be in real estate versus sitting in a 401k forever.

Can you talk about that a little bit more?

Lane Kawaoka: Well, I think the big thing that kind of burns me up a lot is like when, when I was first investing in real estate, I was making maybe 30% of my money or, or more significant when you include the cashflow, the mortgage paid down that your tenant is doing for you, as opposed to when your house with your pain daughter on the mortgage, the tax benefits.

We can talk more about that. And the Appreciation that you’re getting. So when you add that, all of that up, it’s about 30% plus. And if you don’t believe me, go to my website, simplepassivecashflow.com/returns, and look at my little whiteboard video on that. Doing the math. You guys don’t believe me, but you know, very early on, I was like, what the heck?

Why am I investing in those stocks funds mutual fund garbage eight to 10% when I could just do this independently at 30% plus, right. That’s why I chose to get off of that Wall Street type of stuff. And then I started to realize this whole system is near so that people they work in for the rest of their lives.

Right. To me, the analogy I like to use is like, remember when we’re all in high school, and you know, you’re kind of captive to garbage cafeteria food, right. It was expensive. It sucked. As soon as you got your off-campus pass, you’re out of there. Right? You got your taco bell, you got your KFC McDonald’s, and yeah, that’s garbage food.

But the whole point is when you’re stuck in that 401k, you’re stuck with the cafeteria garbage investments in there; it’s retail investments. I really should be using the correct term, right. Retail is like buying the same pair of Nike’s when you’ve met Neiman Marcus or Nordstrom. I don’t do that. I don’t want to pay an extra 20 to 30% for the same thing.

Right. I’m going to buy those pairs of Nike’s elsewhere. It’s the same thing with investments, right? Everybody is kind of moved into this cat, like a cattle herd into the slaughterhouse of these mainstream retail products. And you could look at it, and you start to analyze it. Huge fees are being taken out of this stuff.

Even if it says no fees.

Rick Mazur: Front-load, backload, all that kind of stuff. Exactly.

Lane Kawaoka: Right. I mean, if you say you’ve got your low ETF thing, You know, I’m like, whatever, man, I stopped believing in the Easter bunny, Santa Claus, and all that stuff a long time ago.

Rick Mazur:  Well, cause I think we’re all taught, at least I was years ago, you know, you save your money, you put your money into retirement, let the company contribute their part, and then hopefully you have a big enough nest egg to where you could live off 4%. Or whatever you’d want with withdrawing, but that doesn’t, hasn’t seemed to work for a lot of people you know, over time they need to able to apply that, right?

Lane Kawaoka: If everybody just went out and bought a few rental properties, they’d be on the path to financial freedom very quickly.

I mean, most people that kind of come to simple passive cash flow are like they’re out there free in five to 10 years.

Rick Mazur: Right. And that’s why I wanted to have you on the show because I think there are two different categories. Like we said, of people, there are the people that are starting out or maybe have a little bit less than they want to start with, but there’s also people that, you know, don’t have the time and just say here, take it.

 I value my time more, and it’s great because you can start with one, and you can kind of graduate into the other thing as you go along. And there’s a lot of resources on there to do that as well, which is terrific.

Lane Kawaoka:  You know, for like the new people, you kinda, you kind of touched upon it, the 4% rule, right.

Or whatever they say, the 3% rule these days, like the traditional wealth-building dogma that they tell us, is like, Be a good little boy, right? Go to school schooling, study hard at math engineer for 40 or fricking years. Right. Like, and be a good boy, stand that system. Right. And make you, put your money in blindly and this program.

And it’s called accumulation theory. Right. You grow your nest egg, you build a pile of money to live off of it for 4% for the rest of your life. But when you get to that point in retirement, you’re going to need to eat, put food on the table and eat your pile of cash. You’re going to need cash flow.

So I’m like, well, why don’t you begin with the end in mind now and create those streams of cash flow today. And that’s what these little rental properties are. That’s what these syndications and private placements are. Right? And this is like a kind of reverse engineering, the whole thing, and putting the end in mind, create.

The idea is to have many streams of cash flow today and multiple streams of income. I don’t know what could be more diversified, safer than that. They’re just all putting in one pile to the very end, but that’s what all the dog has us doing, right? When really we want to be creating multiple streams of income from different investments.

So we’re diversified from any one particular event or horrible event happening. And what’s fantastic for high, high paid work and professionals is like, we don’t need to eat those streams of cash flow today. Right? Like when I bought those first rental properties, I didn’t need to eat the cash flow. I didn’t; I had my date good paint day job.

So, I could use those students’ income to buy more properties quicker, quicker, quicker, quicker—it kind of snowballs.

Rick Mazur: Well, they’re taught that put the money in texts deferred, and then it’ll grow, and you won’t have to pay the taxes on it. Whereas, you know, with real estate, theoretically, I know you have the calculator on your website, which I think is great, that people will and should go to because they can see there are other options out there instead of just the traditional way.

Lane Kawaoka:  Yeah. Let’s, let’s break that down, right. Because you are correct. Right. And that’s why people, people ultimately put their money in these retirement programs because it’s in this container and grows tax-free, right. But there are four big reasons why I don’t do any retirement things and high net worth people.

Don’t do it either. Right? So it should make your ears perk up. Right? The first reason is, all this advice is predicated that when you get older, you’re going to show up and die and make less money and be in a lower tax bracket. But I don’t know about you, Rick. I mean, you and I are probably going to make more money in the future.

Right. And be in a higher tax bracket. One would guy one would be optimistic. Right. We’re confident kind of guys. Right. Right. The future is bright for everybody listening to hear. Right. So doesn’t it make sense to pay your taxes today at the lower tax bracket to date? Right. That’s 0.1 0.2. I mean, look where this country is going.

We have all these government settlement programs, all this like printed money from this series of stimulus, and there’s more to come. Taxes are going to be going up, of course, inflation too. Right. And real estate is an excellent hedge of inflation. Ultimately as the person who loads up on good debt. I’m the beneficiary of that.

But that’s another point, but yeah, taxes are going to be going up. Tax brackets are going to go up. I want to pay my taxes today to get it out now. Before the tax brackets go up. Point number three is I’m waiting to I’m down. You’re 65 70-year-olds. Get the money I retired already. I can do it; I’ve done this in less than 10 years, personally.

And I’ve seen many people do it in a lot less than that. Four is kind of bucks the whole tax-free thing. Yeah. When you’re investing in a retirement fund, it grows tech street, but so is real estate. Right. Would you invest in real estate? Real estate shows a paper loss because it depreciates on paper, but here’s the cool thing.

When you invest in private placements and syndications that if you guys are our rental property owners, now this is the game-changer right here. So on these more significant assets, I can do, what’s called cost segregation, depreciate this asset a heck of a lot faster than I did a rental property. For those of you guys with rental properties, you guys know you can deduct one 27 of the value of the improvement over 27 years.

It sounds great. It is excellent, but it’s kind of late because it takes 27 damn years to do, right. But when you do cost segregation, you can deduct one-third of that building all in the first year. Right? So now I’m creating this huge passive loss that I can choose how to use it. And in the past, I personally elected not to pay taxes because I can use my passive losses that drive down my income.

So we do this with a lot of the doctor’s plans, right? Many different strategies will use AGI out of that $330,000 and more significant, so they’re getting killed. Right? So you get these passive losses from the real estate allows you to pull levers. It gives you options. Yes, you can invest in, you can invest in your retirement fund to real estate.

There are different GRPs. Like you mentioned, self-directive, raw self-directed IRAs. I don’t personally like them because when it’s in the retirement bucket, you don’t get it, and these passive losses offset what you’re doing today on your taxes.

Rick Mazur: And then you also have the. 1031 exchange that people use for deferring as well.

Lane Kawaoka: I don’t like that either. I mean, to me, I don’t know why anybody does a 1031 exchange. To me, they’re obsolete because, like when I sold my seven rentals a handful of years ago, I had a $200,000 capital gain. Still, I went into many deals and had several hundred thousand dollars of passive losses, which I use to offset that gain.

I didn’t need to do 1031, and 1031’s just screw you over the next time you’re looking to sell that property because you have this significant depreciation recapture. What you want to do is you want to break it up into smaller chunks so you can better put yourself to defer that. And everybody knows 1031 buyers are suckers. They’re distressed buyers. They have to buy. So they’re always going to be purchasing for a higher price. I lick my chops, and we find a 1031 buyer because I know they’re desperate, and I know I can hit them and hit them hard.

Rick Mazur: Well, that’s why I like what you’re doing because there’s a lot of guys out there especially if you go to YouTube and all – that nowadays make it sound so glamorous, and make it sound big time, and they are taking advantage of the tax system and can defer, but you always got to get a bigger deal, and you always have to upgrade. And like you said, 

if they come to you, then you know that they need it. Then you’re going to be able to get a better deal for yourself probably.

Lane Kawaoka: And I never wanted like the Chuck, this is what the mom and pop investors do. The unsophisticated investors. They go from a single-family home, the duplex, the quadplex eight plex, 16 Plex. It just keeps going up and up, and they’re constantly getting screwed along the way because they’re 1031 buyers. But the biggest thing is there, they’re kind of disobeying one of my Cardinal rules, like never having more than five, 10% of your net worth to anyone deal, right? That’s just diversification. Right. And these guys are just violating that. Like obviously, as they have, they just keep going up and up a big chunk of their net worth into that one asset.

Rick Mazur: And you help them do that diversification through spreading it around. If they’ve got enough resources to do that.

Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, we, yeah. We help investors by letting them chunk into different diversified investments. But then mom and pop investor, we screw over it. We buy their property when they’re in distress, but we take that deal and share it amongst other people.

Rick Mazur: That’s why I found that what you were doing was so interesting because, again, many people are getting pushed down that path. I guess it’s better like you said, than having them. It’s probably better for them than having their money in a retirement or sitting there doing nothing, but. There are better ways and different ways to do things in that, you know, this is one way to go about it. And you have a podcast as well, a simple passive cashflow podcast.

And what type of stuff do you talk about on there?

Lane Kawaoka: Yeah, so our, our folks, our tribe, our people who are successful entrepreneurs. High net worth, make a good salary at their job. And they’re looking for something simple and easy. And when you have a lot of money, it is kind of support VC, right? All this house hacking birth strategy, texts leads, flipping houses.

That’s all that for like guys who don’t have money and have to make a big, they have to find a day job within the real estate world. Right. I was an engineer. I had a decent amount of money from coming from that. And. For a lot of people, like we help all people kind of moving over from other avenues.

Maybe they’ve gotten out of a startup, right. That they exited. Perhaps you just want to take some crypto returns off the table. Right. But the tricky thing about like everything but real estate is you get hammered with taxes, right? And real estate is a hard asset at the end of the day. So it’s the perfect end-game strategy, right?

Don’t come to my website if you don’t have money, because this is not, this is not, this is simple, passive cash flow, right? If you want to find diversification in real estate and kind of lock-up. Your money and something probably the most stable thing out there because they’re not making more of it in a tax-efficient manner.

That’s real estate. And kind of going back to what you’re talking about, the taxes, I mean, you know, to try and stay in my lane with the real estate realm. But I do recognize, I mean, I like a little crypto personally, but that’s what the retirement accounts are for the QRPS and the self-directed IRAs, because the crypto stuff, the trading stuff, you don’t get the tax benefits you do in real estate.

You can’t depreciate your stock, right? There’s no paper loss on that stuff. So that’s the ideal tool for that type of position?

Rick Mazur: You bought a bunch of Bitcoin at $500.

Lane Kawaoka: No, no, I wasn’t. I wasn’t that I, no, no. I mean, I also run a family office, Ohana mastermind, at some point to the things that we talk about in our realms. So high net worth investors or most of us to come from the real estate side. We’re more, I don’t want to say prudent, but more traditional conservative investors. We want assets in our portfolio, but as our net worth rolls, one to $5 million, $10 million, and above, I think it’s appropriate to expand your crypto holding. Maybe anywhere from one to 10%, they’re a more significant percentage going to more people who have a more substantial net worth. Right. That’s just how, yeah, I mean, as a, as a more conservative investor, I’d prefer an investor start off with cash flowing investments first, and then as you network roles and you don’t need that Castro to put food on the table. Yeah. That’s when you get a little more ballsy, and you go after asymmetric risks.

Rick Mazur: Exactly makes total sense for sure. Well, lane, it’s been a great time. Definitely, some good information for people to think about and take action on if they’re interested. I really want to thank you for being on the show. I will have all of the Lanes, information, and links on the website on our show page checkout lanes, podcast at simplepassivecashflow.com, or whatever podcast platform you like to listen to shows on. And don’t miss it. If you’re someone that has investible assets looking for passive income stream opportunities,

Lane Kawaoka:  Right. Not super active broke guys trying to do many rehabs and flips. You got some money. You want to learn how to do it passively, and you, you trade time for money.

Maybe you’re a good stock trader. You’re a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. We are the tribe for you.

Rick Mazur: Yes. All Right, Lane, have a great day. 

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See ya.