Here is the transcript page for episode #6. I interviewed Dr. John Poothullil and to say it was informative is an understatement. Dr. John makes you think hard about certain medical discoveries and treatments widely accepted and out there today. This is only Part 1 of the interview.
Please visit the full episode page #6 – Dr. John Poothullil Pt. 1 – Type-2 Diabetes, Obesity, Insulin Resistance, Allergies, and more for complete show information.
Transcripts may contain a few typos and can be difficult to catch minor errors sometimes.
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Full transcripts are below
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Rick Mazur: Hey, good day, Dr. John, how are you
Dr. John Poothullil: I’m doing fine. Thank you for having me.
Rick Mazur: I’m here with Dr. . John Poothhullil, and I wanted to have Dr. John because he’s got a lot of what I would consider exciting insight and knowledge into many things that make people curious. People that things that plague a lot of people in society. And I just wanted to start with you maybe giving a bit of your story, how you got started. Why did you want to become a doctor? Everything. Just give us a little brief overview.
Dr. John Poothullil: I grew up in India. I was the eighth of 11 children in the family, and we all had different tastes, and I was interested in the why of things, especially regarding health. Why did it happen? How does it happen? That naturally led me to science And medicine.
Rick Mazur: And you got your degree in India, right?
Dr. John Poothullil: I did my medical school in India. I went to Scotland, flew in a year of internship. Then I came to Washington, DC, to do my residency. So I did two years of residency in the United States and one year of fellowship here. And one year of fellowship in Canada, I came back to Wisconsin to practice pediatrics and allergy and immunology.
Then I started my practice in Texas, south of Houston. I was there for 30 years. Then when my son, we have only one child, he announced that we would-be grandparents. So I moved to Portland, but that gave me time to think about all my ideas about weight gain diabetes. And later on. I was diagnosed with cancer.
Rick Mazur: Okay.
Dr. John Poothullil: I asked my oncologist why did it happen? I have not changed anything. He said, check the website on American cancer society. So I went there, and they said it is because of improper diet and lack of exercise. I could not understand it. So I called my professors in India, the medical school, and asked them what they think?
There, they were having higher incidents of cancer compared to when we were there 60 years ago. At that time, there was no cancer hospital. Now I found out that they have two eight-story buildings just to treat cancer patients. So I asked them, what do you, what is causing this? And they said you know what?
Improper diet and lack of exercise. So, in other words, the standard answer, you get anywhere in the world. This is what started me on the journey to find out what this is all about.
Rick Mazur: Yeah, I want to start knowing that you were interested in understanding the causes of the interconnections between hunger satiation and weight gain. And I’m curious to know your findings on that and what you’ve, what you did discover.
Dr. John Poothullil: My dad started when I was in my mid-forties. I started gaining weight in the winter months to lose it in spring. So I thought I’m not exercising much. I’m eating the same. So that’s why, but after 50, mid 50, I found out what I gained in the winter. So it’s not going away. Even though I thought I was still eating precisely the same.
So I started looking into what is going on. So I looked at the medical textbooks, and I wanted to find out starting from the beginning. If we all know if we don’t eat, we cannot gain weight. So let me start there. What is the physiological basis of the sensation of hunger? Because we cannot predict, we know when we will be hungry and when we eat, we don’t know before.
And how much will it take to satisfy us? And each time you eat, you don’t eat the same volume. So that means volume consideration is not the criteria for stopping the meal. Otherwise, you should eat the same volume each time before you’ve you feel full? So this is what started me on my journey to understand the physiology of hunger and satiation.
Rick Mazur: interesting. And that comes up in your books, which we’re going to get to in a little while as well. You also investigated the theory of insulin resistance as it relates to diabetes.
Dr. John Poothullil: When I was practicing one day, one of my patients came for, I was practicing treating him for allergies, but he looked distraught, and I asked him what happened. He is usually a charming fellow. And he said today; my secretary is having her leg amputated. So I said, I thought, oh, why is she in an accident?
He said no, she had type two diabetes.
She was on Insulin. But that did not say she’s having her leg amputated. And then I thought, no, why is he so distraught? No, this is something that is happening more and more. Then he told me. He has type two diabetes. He’s already on three medications, and his doctor is asking him to start insulin.
And he thought to himself; my secretary took insulin that did not save her leg. I need my leg because I’m a businessman and I have two boys in high school. How can I function without my leg? So I said, I have a different opinion. I have a different approach. So he was curious.
Rick Mazur: yeah.
Dr. John Poothullil: So I told him, let us go and eat, and I’ll show you how to eat.
He weighed 300 pounds. I took him to a restaurant and showed him how to eat based on hunger and satiation ideas. I did not see him for a year and a half. Finally, one day he came back. He was beaming with a smile. And he said as he goes to the scale, I want to show you.
So we went to the scale; he had lost 100 pounds. So I send him for a glucose tolerance test to determine his glucose metabolism. And he was certified as a non-diabetic. He was off all his medications. So I knew at that time, this concept of insulin resistance is not the right tool. So I looked into that, and in my second book, how to reverse diabetes is what I’m proposing.
Rick Mazur: But do you think that generally speaking, it is diet and things like that for most people, or do you think some people just medically, for whatever reason, get it and need to be on medicine.
Dr. John Poothullil: The question is in any hypothesis before in any branch of science a hypothesis is accepted as fact only after validation. And regardless of the science, there are three steps for validation. One is logic. The other is mechanism, and the third is measure. So let’s look at the logic. According to the diabetologist, three types of cells in the body, the liver, the fat, and the muscle, become resistant to insulin.
Now, keep in mind that insulin is a natural hormone that everybody produces, just essential. However, people with type one diabetes don’t produce insulin. That is why they used to die before insulin was discovered exactly 100 years ago. With insulin, their lifestyle life became routine, and without insulin, they will still die.
So they need to take insulin every day. Whereas in type two diabetes, they had to decide because what they found was that their insulin level is higher than usual after a meal. So they have insulin. There is nothing wrong with the structure of insulin molecules or function. So why are they still having high blood glucose levels? The doctors decided it is because William Farka, eight years ago in Vienna, suggested that the cell responds to insulin, which became accepted without any study. There’s no evidence. So the question is, how can the body suddenly decide from tomorrow? I’m not going to respond to insulin, and that too only three cells, muscles, liver, and fat formed a union one day and decided, okay, from tomorrow we just ignore the insulin.
But what is the reason you have to have a sense? There’s no reason to ask an endocrinologist. The second is the mechanism. Now, to understand the mechanism, let me explain how insulin works. Let’s say you are living in a house when the doorbell rings, there is somebody outside. The cell is an independent living unit.
It needs to use glucose for energy, but if glucose is outside, there’s no doorbell for the low-cost molecule to ring to inform the cell I’m outside. That is the job of insulin, but the insulin is not there. So the cell stars, but glucose is outside. That is what was happening to children with type one diabetes.
So when insulin was given, the cells started using glucose for energy, and their lives became normal. So if there is a defect in the mechanism, You said because the doorbell is not working in type two diabetics, or if the ringtone is defective or is a gene in charge not responding because the gene has to send in wagons called glucose transporters to the door, open up the door, Lorna glucose molecules, and bring them in.
So, where is the problem? And you see the same problem in all these different sites. Nobody has detected the mechanism or the defect in the mechanism. So that has not been proven. The third is the measurement. So independent scientists can compare and get the same result or do the same study.
Have you ever heard of a test to measure the degree of insulin resistance? Yeah. So whether you are newly diagnosed or have had it for 20 years and have complications. Is it because you are insulin resistance is getting worse or not. There is no test. So for all the scientific reasons, the concept of insulin resistance has never been proven.
Rick Mazur: why do you think that is? They just can’t figure it out or.
Dr. John Poothullil: About 30 years ago, I wrote to the NIH, telling them that it is not proven. I have a different hypothesis. And they say, oh, we are in the world of identifying the defective molecules. Okay. A few years ago, I sent the same letter, and I got the same answer. So you figure it out.
Rick Mazur: But, interestingly, they can. It’s like when COVID came out, they came out with the genetic code for the mRNA coding for it. I believe it was given by the Chinese as early as January 2020. But it just took a while obviously to make the vaccine, but how is it that they can come up and solve these things so quickly with something like that, but with something like insulin, they can’t.
Dr. John Poothullil: But that tells you the strength of the hypothesis. Isn’t it?
Rick Mazur: Yeah.
Dr. John Poothullil: Elliot Joslin and the Joslin Clinic in Boston. Elliot Jocelyn is the father of an American diabetologist. And they made the name, the clinic after him. He had about 4,000 cases of diabetes. He’s the one that used insulin to bring blood glucose down.
He treated more children with type one diabetes than anybody else. So whatever he said became the truth. And he published a paper at that time saying that he can reduce their deaths by 20% just by using insulin. And he propagated the idea. He believed that when the children got better, the blood glucose level went down.
So all we have to do is bring the blood glucose level down because glucose is responsible for arteriosclerosis, the cause of death in type two diabetes or complications. It is the blood glucose that is water-soluble that does not block anything but fat blocks the artery. So it sticks to the arterial wall, and his hypothesis was the liver makes the fat from glucose. Hence, if you bring the glucose level down by whatever means, the liver cannot make the fat, and you will not have arteriosclerosis. What he did not do is separate type one from type two adult-onset. At that time, it was called other tones, not type two. So he thought he does the same disease happening at an older age.
Keep in mind that there was no test. There was no laboratory way of detecting insulin in the blood of the adult. So there was no test for it later when they found that adults had the same insulin amount or more than regular insulin. So they had to develop the hypothesis that when we lean forward, they said, okay, maybe the cells are not responding.
And the idea of what Elliot proposed that Jocelyn stuck by that time because the pharmaceutical companies now had a product they can sell.
So why would we not promote it?
Rick Mazur: So there was a solution, and the answer was, bring the levels down through this means, and the problem solved
Dr. John Poothullil: Exactly.
Rick Mazur: now that tell that to people who have type one and type two diabetes
Dr. John Poothullil: No, for type one. Yes, because
Rick Mazur: type one room.
Dr. John Poothullil: So we had to separate that. My book is all about type two,
Rick Mazur: right
Dr. John Poothullil: type two is my opinion based on misinformation. The concept has never been validated. But if you keep saying something long enough and loud enough,
Rick Mazur: right.
Dr. John Poothullil: And especially if we can get that into medical textbooks, even an act of Congress cannot change that.
So that is what happened.
Rick Mazur: I found it interesting that you worked as an allergist. My son has a tree nut allergy, and I didn’t know anything about allergies at the time. I didn’t have any of that in my family at all. But then I was aware of it, and it was just shocking to me that it’s been a thing for years, and they can never find a solution to that either.
He’s anaphylactic. He’s, he almost had a couple of incidents, so it’s pretty scary stuff. People have things like type two diabetes or anaphylactic allergies and things like that, but maybe they’ll come up with something one day for that.
Dr. John Poothullil: The whole question is whether allergy or the COVID is a good example.
Rick Mazur: Okay.
Dr. John Poothullil: The body has an immune system. What is the function of the immune system? The functional immune system is to protect the body from agents or infections that can harm us. To do that, your system needs to recognize what is normal or self versus what is attacking?
What is foreign? How does the body do that? If you think about it, the immune cells are trained from the beginning of a person’s life to recognize what are they with your components in the body so that the immune system will not attack oneself. Okay.
What do I see? You allow auto-immune disease. And where does the immune system get this training? It gets the training in the gut, the
Rick Mazur: Okay.
Dr. John Poothullil: no normal bacteria. We have more bacteria in terms of number in the body compared to the number of cells. We have 32 trillion cells in the human body. So we are more bacteria than that in the count. So the immune system get goes to the gut to get trained on what is expected.
And they have proteins, and Immune cells identify the protein. Each cell is metal, proteins, and carbohydrates. And I said it is the protein component. The immune cells recognize this as usual. And if they detect a protein in any surface or in any bacteria that is not normal. Then the attack either through antibodies or through white cells.
These are the two arms of the immune system antibodies on one side and white cells. So if it so happens that during the training of the immune system, something goes wrong or if the body has a protein or the nut has a protein, which is similar to something, the body, the immune system has been told it is foreign. It will attack now.
Rick Mazur: How can it go from, like he had nuts, for example, it’s just one example, but he had nuts two or three times previous. This was when he was three or four or five years old and never had any problem. And then, all of a sudden, boom, one day, six months later, he has another one. And then, all of a sudden, there’s a problem.
Dr. John Poothullil: that is because you need to have prior knowledge to affect. So the immune system has to be prepared to attack again. Depending on the intensity of the attack, when you take any minimization, whether COVID or regular, it takes two weeks to be protected. Yeah. The second dose will boost your immune system even more. So each time you are exposed, the body has identified it as a foreign agent to attack. Then with each exposure, it is getting the reinforcement.
Rick Mazur: I heard that if you have a reaction the second time, the response with many people will be quicker or more aggressive. So they said that certain people with allergies shouldn’t get the COVID vaccine?
Dr. John Poothullil: That’s a different story. Allergy is a hyperimmune reaction.
Rick Mazur: Okay.
Dr. John Poothullil: The allergy, there are different types of antibodies. There’s IGA. I G M I G I D E I G E is the antibody for, in people who have allergies and the original idea, the body produced the IgE antibody to destroy parasites. With all our cleanliness, most children here don’t have parasites. So that immune capability, somehow those cells identified a specific protein, similar to a parasitic protein as a parasite. And it is producing an IgE reaction in your son’s case, a protein in the tree nut, somehow it is similar to a protein in a parasite, and it’s reacting.
It thinks it’s a parasite.
Rick Mazur: interesting.
Dr. John Poothullil: it is producing the IDE to that. Now in COVID, the antibody is producing is IgG gee, which’s one antibody. And at the same time, yeah, prime, some memory cells, the white cells, so that if you, the exposure again, the white cell can prompt antibody production faster. So that is what happens with your immunization. You are priming and getting the white cells ready for future recognition and attack
Rick Mazur: I know that they were running. Everybody was running around, especially with the COVID, and they were talking about taking zinc. For COVID and, zincs helps the immune system and everything. And some people say wearing a mask weakens the immune system. So nobody, there’s much misinformation going on around, especially in the beginning and hyperactive immune systems. And everybody’s what does all this mean? And I think that’s where the confusing part comes in for a lot of people.
Dr. John Poothullil: Let’s take one thing at a time. The zinc. Okay. The human body needs 100 different nutrients for healthy functioning. 100, let’s say the immune system. And like I said, white cells it’s an army or army unit. Now for the army only to be an effective one, it needs the material. Second. It needs transportation.
Third. It needs food—all of that. I think so. Just because you have a powerful army, it cannot function the same with the immune system if it cannot move. Yes. The thing is one element that can make a good immune system. But if without the rest, how can it function? Then the blood vessels have to be open.
Suppose you had a club. No, you have a robust immune system to come, but if the blood work, it’s blocked if the roads are blocked; how can the army reach them? Or, if the bridge is washed away, how can the army cross the river? So it is on the one hand. But, on the other hand, yes, you need zinc to have a robust immune system.
But by itself, it will not help you any unless all the other parts are functioning. Let’s take masks. The COVID can go from the first of all, how COVID spread, and COVID is an RNA virus when you go in front of a mirror. If you breathe on the mirror gets cloudy, right? Why
Rick Mazur: moisture.
Dr. John Poothullil: moisture is coming from the lung. Each time you breathe out some moisture. Each one of those drops can have a COVID virus if you are infected so that when you breathe out, that virus particle is floating in the air, and that’s our droplet. And that droplet, if it is 10 microns, will go only up to four feet.
And it will be brought down by gravity. But COVID 40% of the virus that’s coming out are called aerosol form is called aerosol. Why? Because the size is five microns. It is compact that can float in the air for up to eight hours, and it can flow along the direction of the air movement. So it can infect more people faster. That is why COVID spread. Now. Suppose you breathe in the COVID in front of the air. It goes through the ear, nose into your sinuses. And you see the spikes, the Corona of the virus, right? The spikes on COVID virus. One spike attaches itself to the cell wall receptor. Another spike makes a hole in the cell wall So that the RNA the virus can get into the cell. The virus has 30,000 building blocks called nucleotides. The virus goes into the cell’s nucleus and instructs and forces the gene in charge of protein construction to issue a work order with the blueprint of the virus.
That is the messenger RNA that comes out of the nucleus, goes into the cytoplasm’s manufacturing facility, gives the work order, and starts producing more viruses. And when the cell is full, it comes on to the virus or the cell. It can go to the lungs, or it can start infecting other people.
That is how it is spread.
Rick Mazur: Are there foods that can boost the immune system to help prevent something like this?
Dr. John Poothullil: What do you do when first of all, we are at the mask. When you wear a mask, you are stopping the droplet from getting into your nose. But if you are gaps, the aerosol form can still get in. So that is the key there. So you may have to go further out when talking to somebody who has an infection, whether COVID or cold, don’t stay right in front of him.
You are getting the blast stand to the side of that person. So when he breathes out, if he coughs or sneezes, you don’t get the full blast. So if you’ve added the mask again, you’re trapping the virus outside the mask.
Rick Mazur: but some people claim, again, I’m not saying correctly or incorrectly, that they don’t want to wear a mask because the restrictions on breathing weaken their immune system somehow. Is that true?
Dr. John Poothullil: no, there is no evidence for that,
Rick Mazur: No studies
Dr. John Poothullil: can, because the immune system is inside, the breathing cannot affect the immune system that has already been programmed to detect what is expected and foreign.
Rick Mazur: that’s good information. Cause I think people need to know that I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about obesity. They say that one in, I think one in three people, they claim are overweight. Two and three are overweight or obese. I’m six-foot, five, 200, and something pounds. And I, they claim I’m obese.
I went to the gym and did a BMI test. And my BMI came in at some ungodly number, and I started researching it a little bit, and I was surprised how many people in the United States or the world are obese. And I think I know what you’re going to say, but do you have any opinion on why so many people are obese,
Dr. John Poothullil: question four, let us define what is obesity
Rick Mazur: right.
Dr. John Poothullil: and the medical weight chart that is used by all over the world. Do you know how that came about? That was not based on the measurement of actual people by any scientists. The metropolitan life insurance company wanted to specify how much insurance premium to charge. So life insurance saw they needed to find out the longevity of the people who are applying. And what they did was they asked the height and weight of individuals who are applying, and over some time, the gap gathered enough data. And these are all self-reported measurements. Okay. And from that, they produced a scale that if at this age, if you are this height and this weight, you have a higher chance of dying earlier. So the whole weight chart came from that. Then they found out if somebody is taller, it does not necessarily apply. So they came up with the body mass index to account for the height of the person. What counts constitutes body weight; the bodyweight consists of your bones, organs, muscle, water, and fat.
These are the significant components of body weight. So if any of this changes, your body weight can change. So how will that affect your health? Remember I told you my patient was diabetic, who was 300 pounds. It’s so happened. The following week I had another patient who was also 300 pounds, but he did not have diabetes.
And his doctor told him that he should lose weight. I and why did he, why did the doctor say that? Because my BMI was so high. Okay. I asked him, how is your blood pressure normal? How is your blood sugar regular? How is your blood cholesterol normal? I said, you come from a big family. Yes. So that is what you inherited.
You inherited solid muscles and a large storage capacity. so we reach our adult bone density by age, mid 20, and he had already reached the maximum height. So whatever weight you have at that time provided, your blood chemistry, sugar, and triglycerides are normal. So that is your authentic weight.
That’s what I call authentic. Wait,
Rick Mazur: so you’re saying.
Dr. John Poothullil: scale.
Rick Mazur: So you’re saying that if somebody’s otherwise normally healthy, measured by blood tests and blood sugar levels and everything like that, really BMI means nothing.
Dr. John Poothullil: precisely what I’m saying is there are two types of obesity. In my definition, cosmetic and medical,
Rick Mazur: Okay.
Dr. John Poothullil: look fat; that does not mean he’s unhealthy. He just inherited a gene that makes them either more muscles or store more fat. But if blood chemistry norm on how he started going to bother him, unless there are some joint issues because of the weight
Rick Mazur: I was going to ask you that just because he’s healthy now, many people would argue that he will have problems down the road if he doesn’t lose the weight.
Dr. John Poothullil: with the joint. Now, on the other hand, there are lean. People had diabetes.
Rick Mazur: Okay.
Dr. John Poothullil: So what, why, what, why do you that happening?
Rick Mazur: So it doesn’t have anything to do with weight.
Dr. John Poothullil: exactly. You’re just not how it has something to do with the weight, but not how we project the Eastern way table. Suppose you take away a table for any height with a 20-pound difference from the lower to the upper. So each individual, you are told you are obese, okay. Genetically is supposed to be at the lower end of the range or at the upper end, which is typical for you. Who determines that? How do you know I had a patient who was five foot five. She was told she was normal for her height. As far as weight is concerned, yet she had type two diabetes and. She dropped some weight from the upper normal to the lower normal, her diabetes disappeared. So even 10 to 15 pounds of weight can make a difference. If it cannot be stowed outside the black, what we measure in glucose, triglyceride, and cholesterol is what is floating in the blood. So if you are looking obese because he had got a lot of fat stored outside the blood, how he started going to Baltimore.
Rick Mazur: So again, if somebody is what you’re saying is if somebody is overweight, but they’re otherwise testing healthy with their doctor, they should just, that’s what they inherited. And they should just go on with their lives and not worry about it.
Dr. John Poothullil: Exactly. Unless there is a reason. And as I said, it’s a symptom, either a joint or something else.
Rick Mazur: And it’s possible for them to be that way, their whole life and never have a problem.
Dr. John Poothullil: Exactly.
Rick Mazur: Let’s talk about diabetes a little bit; people, I think, want to learn how to improve and increase their insulin sensitivity. And many people say sleep, exercise, lower your stress level, lose weight, all that kind of stuff. And I know you touch on that in your book, but do you have any thoughts on that? About improving or increasing insulin sensitivity?
Dr. John Poothullil: The first question is, where does the term insulin sensitivity come from? It comes from the original concept there is insulin resistance, which has never been proved.
Rick Mazur: who is propagating these terms? And like you said, if it’s never been proven, how do you get to the next step where they just keep. It’s I know what you’re saying. If you say it enough, people will believe it, but why are they saying it?
Dr. John Poothullil: because they don’t have an ultimate hypothesis, they’re comfortable with it. And they stick with it. The idea is promoted by Dr. Jocelyn, even now. Go to the National Institute of the digestive and diabetic and kidney website. They will say type two diabetes starts when the liver muscle and fat cells begin not responding to insulin but is there any proof?
Or, as I said, there is no logic, no mechanism, or no measurement. So now, who do you think put that there? The endocrinologist, right? Because that is what their respected professors taught them.
Rick Mazur: I can tell you, it was just a lot of people running around. You can find it on Google and everywhere, thinking that they have to worry about their insulin sensitivity, and it’s good. This, again, is excellent information to know, because I guess we’re spending a lot of time in a lot of areas, worrying about a lot of things we shouldn’t worry about with health
Dr. John Poothullil: I give you an example.
Rick Mazur: or the wrong things.
Dr. John Poothullil: Every person with diabetes is asked to exercise, and they say, oh, that increases insulin sensitivity. Okay. Most of the time, when is the incident level the maximum in your body? Soon after a meal?
Rick Mazur: Correct.
Dr. John Poothullil: Most often, we exercise between meals when the insulin level is the lowest. Okay. You feel increased sensitivity.
And if there is no insulin, how does that help you exercise when your insulin level is low? Yes. You increase the sensitivity. So what does that mean? Nothing. Now, what they found out was, remember I told you when insulin, so it rings the doorbell insulin, by the way, does not get inside the cell.
All it does is it’s a messenger. It ma it gives the cell of the message. Glucose is outside. That is all insulin does. Now, if we increase insulin sensitivity, what does that mean? Does that mean the cell will accept more locals? How do you know? You disciple? Yes. The blood glucose level will go down.
When you inject somebody with insulin, does it go into the cell which is supposedly resistant? How do you know without a test, or does it go to cells which are already sensitive or sensitive? How does that help? The interesting parties during the muscles have two variations of the glucose transporter, which for glut, for glucose transport, a number four, that is the muscle-specific low-cost transporter.
One form is activated when insulin is there, and the second form is activated just from exercise alone. So you don’t need insulin. In other words, to get glucose in the exercise alone will help the muscle, send the glucose transporter and a lot of glucose, and bring it in without insulin. So you are signaling more the presence of glucose.
So that’s a cup. Yes. The blood glucose level goes down. So the endocrinologist interpreted it as, oh, it is increasing insulin sensitivity. There is no scientific basis for that determination, but it looks good. It can make you make people exercise because they think they are increasing insulin sensitivity.
Rick Mazur: but if they’re going to exercise because they are worried about it, they need to do it after a meal.
No. When the insulin is high though
Dr. John Poothullil: that depends on you. The very concept of insulin the hype, the cost of blood glucose level. Your body absorbs glucose. And what happens to it when glucose level goes up, pancreatic produces insulin. Now, let’s say again, you tell me what you ate for supper last night?